The $1 Million Romance Scam That Fooled an Air Force Intelligence Analyst | Debby Montgomery Johnson

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Welcome everyone to doing business with the Service Heart Podcast. I'm your host, Steve Rona. I am thrilled to have you join us today. This podcast is dedicated to exploring the idea of doing business and living life with a purpose, serving others and, yes, achieving success, and also solving problems, which we're going to talk about today. You guys and girls, you got to listen to this because this is for everybody. We believe that when we approach our work and our lives with a servant's heart, we can truly make a difference. We create this show for you because we want everyone to be motivated, inspired, and educated to make an impact in your world, whether you're an entrepreneur, a community leader, or simply someone looking to bring more purpose into your daily life. This purpose podcast is here to support you. I like to say purpose life. Make sure I don't say it too many times. Now, while listening to my incredible guests, and you're gonna be blown away, as I said earlier, think about how you're gonna serve today and what impact you will create today. And today's episode is brought to you by our amazing sponsor, Pantheon Alliance. Picture yourself joining an elite, high-income earning uh community of business owners, entrepreneurs to grow your network, get your message out, and build your thought leader platform. It's an incredible opportunity to expand your network and develop business to new heights. If you have any questions, reach out to me. Today this is an emotional podcast because when this happens to you, it's extremely emotional. Uh, we're gonna talk about scams, especially with women, but everybody, we're gonna talk about online. There's good about online and there's bad about online. We're gonna talk the bad side that you all need to be aware about and not put a shade over your eyes and oh, it's not gonna happen to me, which she's gonna get into. Debbie, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate you being here.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

First thing, yes, and thank you for your service. I want to say that. I appreciate that. She was in the Air Force, and any of our military need to be saluted and supported in any way we can do that. Let's talk about scams. Let's talk about uh how you got started because I think your background's really important to tell you why you you're an advocate now.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Absolutely, Steve. Uh well in 2010, uh I'm just like everybody else. My my background is I should never have been a victim to scam. Uh, I was in the Air Force, I was a senior manager for for uh banks. I was a paralegal. I had a really good information, really good background. Uh what I didn't expect is that I got a phone call from my son one morning and he said, Mom, dad just died. I'm coming home to take care of everything. I was just almost 52 years old. My husband was almost 56. I hadn't expected that at all. So it was it was sudden. It took me by complete surprise. Uh I figured Lou would live to 100, but I didn't think he would die at 56. And so that threw me into running his company, which I knew nothing about, which is benfocomplete.com. It was a, it's we we sell a vitamin supplement for diabetics with neuropathy. And Lou had diabetes and neuropathy. I did not. So I had to figure out how to run his company because that paid our bills. And between him dying so suddenly and not knowing how to run the company and just all the emotions of everything, about six months later, I was I was doing fairly well. I used all my resources in running the business. But my friends came to me and said, Look, you need to get a life. And what they meant was you needed something other than working 20 hours a day and trying to sleep for uh because I really didn't have time to grieve and I didn't have time to understand what had happened. Blue and I had both been in the military. And when he left on a Wednesday to go on a business trip and then never saw him again, I got that phone call and I never saw him. It was almost like he'd gone off on a TDY, a temporary duty, and forgot to call me. And so I was running on energy anxiety, all these things, trying to pull um information from customers, from from um suppliers, from other business people, because I was a solopreneur, which I'm sure most of many of your listeners are. And I realized at that point that there's no IN team, and I was trying to do everything, and I was totally exhausted. So when my friends came and said you need a life, they meant you need to get out there again, you need to maybe go on a date. And I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I didn't like that when I was 16. I can't imagine doing it again at 52, and all those insecurities come out, you know, not smart enough, skinny enough, all these not enough, in spite of my great background with business. And I said, okay, let's just try it. So I did the safe route, at least I thought it was safe. I went online to a faith-based dating site, and thinking that I would have good things in common with gentlemen my age or a little bit older, and I was sorely surprised uh that most of the guys couldn't write better than a fifth grader or showed up with I call them the wife beater t-shirts, you know, the t-shirts with no sleeves. And I'm thinking, oh, this isn't what I wanted. Because my husband had been brilliant. He was a briefer for the Air Force chief of staff. And so I was really, I wanted a business person that could help me with my company, and I wanted someone that I could talk to, someone, whatever. But it was safe being online because I'd been married for almost 26 years and I wasn't ready for somebody in person, but I was ready to develop a relationship online or by calling or phone or whatever or um emailing. And so I was contacted by what who I thought was a very good-looking gentleman from England. He was in a contractor, international business, and just all the check, check, checks, right? He was a widower. Uh, and this is interesting. I found the guys that were widowed were a little bit different than the guys that were divorced because they I not put it politely, but they came without baggage, right? Like me, because my spouse had died, and I had all good things to remember uh at the time. And so um they just it was a different feel. So we entered into this online thing, and he was a contractor out of Houston at the time, working in Houston, got a job, took him overseas, which I thought was really interesting. For it was a two-year relationship, and we talked about business, we talked about my company, his company, uh, our families, our experiences, and we were building this fun relationship. Uh, and it was mostly through Yahoo! Chat, which I'd never been on before. That was high tech back then. But it was instant messaging, and we wrote for hours. I have after two years, I had 4,000 pages of journal entries, which I cut and pasted. So I was building what I thought was a legacy for the family, and a legacy for whoever wanted to know how we got together. Little by little, you know, uh again, part of this looked like a business, business relationship. And I knew from owning a company that you don't always get paid until the job's done. And so he was running into some problems overseas. He took he went from Houston over to Malaysia, was moving some hardwood trees from Malaysia to India. Side note, I had investments in trees, hardwood trees in Costa Rica, which he didn't know about, but I was able to understand a little of what he was doing because of my investments. Well, when the things started to happen, you know, it was probably a couple of weeks when he wanted me to help him out the first time with a power of attorney. He had, I met his lawyer online, I got to know his sister, his son. I mean, it was this whole family relationship was being built over a couple week period of time. And when he asked me to help him out with a power of attorney because presumably he was going to get paid, was coming here to the states, bringing his family over, and we needed to set up some banking accounts and whatever here. I went back to my paralegal days and thinking, oh, I know how to do power of attorneys, that's no big deal. It started to get expensive though, because now it was an international power of attorney. I didn't know that there was a difference. There was, and and and that was the first time he'd asked me to help him out with money. And the only time we really had an not an argument, but a TIFF because I'm one of those damn Yankees. I don't give money away to just anybody. And he wanted me to send him money through Western Union. Well, as a former banker, I'm thinking, why in the world would I do that? Seems kind of weird, scuzzy. But I didn't I didn't, you know, anticipate fraud. And so I did it. I went to the local grocery store and I did it, and it was interesting because they did ask me, you know, do you know this person? Well, by then he was a friend, right? And he was I knew I knew him, even though I'd never seen him in person. And that started off the two years worth of relationship, uh, sending him money to help him with the business so he would get back here sooner. And I know a lot 10 years, 12 years later than I knew back then, because again, I went into all that not ever hearing of fraud in a dating site, especially a faith-based dating site. And it all came crashing down. Two almost two years later, um, I got that phone call. Well, actually, I didn't get the phone call, I got an email saying, How do you feel about forgiveness? And we got into this Yahoo chat conversation about forgiveness, and and it went on for hours and then we got disconnected, which is not unusual. Uh, came back and he said, Let's revisit. And so we did. And I'm like, What did I do? What why are we talking about forgiveness? And thinking, what did I do? And he goes, I have something to tell you, and it's gonna hurt you. At that point, I'm like, Well, why do you have to tell me? Um, he goes, I have a confession to make. And I'd heard that once in my 26 years and I didn't really like it. And so I'm thinking, I don't really want to hear this. But he goes, I have to confess to you that this has all been a scam. And I'm thinking, two years? You've lied to me for two years? How could anybody lie to me and get away with it for two years? Because I, throughout those two years, I would get addresses and I would do a Google search on it. And, you know, I was a former Air Force intelligence imagery analyst and I would look to see if it was a house or what it was and to try to put together the story. Um, and when he came back and said this has all been a scam, I'm thinking, well, now you're sick. Now that something's really wrong, you have to prove to me that what you're telling me today is the truth. And on Yahoo chat, I didn't know this at the time, but there's a camera and he could come on live and he walked me through that and visualized my screens, dual screens. I'm seeing this handsome Brit, and then up pops a little corner camera, and now I'm seeing this dark-haired, dark-skinned, dark-eyed young man with a big smile on his face. And it's like I hit a brick wall. I'm like, what just happened here? I'm looking at this kid, and he he says, Can we keep this going? And I'm like, Are you out of your mind? I did not know that. Well, and I'm thinking, what does he want to keep going? I I don't have any more money because you know, at that point I've I've given away a million dollars or over a million dollars, which I didn't have, and I need to explain that part too. But I'm thinking, what does he want out of this? Because I don't have any more money. Um, but he wanted me, he wanted to be a friend. And I'm uh part of me felt like if he had asked me that two years ago, I would have been your friend. I wouldn't have sent me any money. But you know, I was a generous person. And if if he had needed help with his siblings or whatever, I would have helped him a little bit. But to be deceived so badly, you know, my heart got ripped out from underneath me at that point, worse than when Lou died. Because now, well, fortunately, I saw I have a face to a problem. I saw him and it was like hitting a brick wall. But my head, which had been led by my heart for two years, was now back in, okay, let's figure out how we can catch him. And it was like that until I went to the FBI the next day and they said, sorry, there's nothing we can do. And that's when I shut down. And that's when most victims uh of fraud or of any of any you know victim situation, you when you don't get any assistance from anybody, you shut down and you don't want to talk about it. And I didn't, I didn't want to tell anybody, but I did talk to my mom and dad. I called them right away because they were the first ones to to take care of when Lou died. And I had also gotten them involved up to the amount of $100,000. They had helped me thinking that he was coming home, you know, and I at that point, the hardest thing for me to do was to face my parents and say, I'm so sorry, I will get you that money back. I have no idea how, but I will get you that money back. Um, and I didn't have the money. I I found it. I I sold jewelry, I sold investments, I sold uh, gosh, whatever I had, thinking I my my uh 401k, my in my retirement plans, thinking that I would just take a loan on them and get them back, you know, so I wouldn't have any penalties. Well, now all of that was gone. And I'm faced with all those financial issues, plus my you know, emotion, my emotions.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

The emotions are probably worse. Oh, yeah. What's interesting with the story, I'll let you continue, is you're an expert. You're an expert in the military in this. And that's why I say if it's gonna happen to you, it's gonna happen to anybody, right?

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Well, right. And there is no, it's not gonna happen to me. I mean, I I I work with a lot of victims in their families now. And even when I went out and first started speaking about this, it took a while for me to open up again. And it wasn't until I realized it wasn't about me anymore. It was about the person that is sitting beside me uh that I know something's wrong, but she or he will not talk about it. And they don't, you don't talk about it until you realize there's somebody else out there that's been through it. And then it's like this comfort zone. We're like, okay, so I'm not gonna get judged by this person. There's no victim blame because they understand what I'm going through. And that's what I had to do when I realized that when I first told a couple of friends what had happened, they're like, Well, you have to tell your story. I'm thinking, uh no. They said, one girl said, My mom had been taken uh for $80,000 and never did anything about it. Another girlfriend had been in a Ponzi scheme twice and didn't know how to talk about it. And another had been in a relationship in person, but turned out that the guy had another family up north. And I'm thinking, oh my gosh, this is, you know, I used to say if it's if you haven't seen the whites of their eyes in in two weeks, then it's a scam. But now you can be scammed in person. So you just have to be really careful. But the point is, it can happen to anybody at any time. I wasn't some desperate old woman, you know, needing love. I was very well educated, well financed. I I was just, it was the perfect storm, you know. I met someone and they are expertly trained, you know, the scammers they're they're criminals. They are financial fraud criminals, organized crime. They know what to say, they've got playbooks, they they it's it's called fishing for a reason because they don't need one person and a million dollars. They need a million people with $200 or $250.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Or if they can't get one person, they just go next and they go on until they catch that person and fish them and sneak them in the hook and away they go. Let's talk about. I really want to get into what's happened. You had a horrific experience, but you've learned from it. Now you're helping and supporting other victims. Talk about what you're doing now.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Right now, actually, I'm the chairman of the board of directors for the organization called SCARS, which is the Society of Citizens Against Relationship Scams. We're one of the only organizations in the world that works with victims of online financial fraud. Uh, there are a lot of security people out there working on programs and whatever for banks, but we're we're one of the only ones that actually deals with the recovery of victims because three out of a hundred victims report. So there's trillions of dollars being shipped across the world. And if only 3% are reporting, think of the dollar amount that's going out of this, out of the countries, right? Um, but most people don't want to say anything because the immediate reaction of family and friends is, wow, that was really stupid of you. How in the world could you have done that? So the victim blame gets piled on top of you and then you shut down. And that leads to increased depression, increased trauma, uh, and then ultimately to suicide. We see suicide daily, which is just a shame because now you've got someone that's 60, 65, 70, 75, 80 years old who has lost their retirement funds. They've lost family, they might have lost a home because the scammers actually will get you to remortgage your home or take a loan out on your home or do what they did with me, you know, sell my retirement account. So you're so desperate and then to have no support, uh, it's devastating. So, what SCARS does is actually we're we're launching a new program on Monday called Survivor's Survival School, a survivor's school. And it's a 15-week program where we actually will educate you on how it happened, uh, how you're how what the psychology of the scam is, how to understand the amygdala hijack, you know, the brain movement and all that stuff, and then how to recover financially. How yeah, you're not going to get the money back, but you have to understand that yes, the own you did it, but the only thing you did wrong was say hello.

unknown 18:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

And then they've taken it from there. So the SCARS program, which is fabulous, and actually you can see it on uh scamvictimport.org. Uh, we train folks on on this is what happened, this is what you do next, this is how to report to police, because there's a fine line on how you can go in and report it without being emotional and they turn you off. You have to go in and report it as being a financial fraud. Everybody knows what fraud is, they don't know what a romance scam is. And then I work with bankers now, I work with financial institutions on how can bankers, when they recognize it, because they're many times the first ones to see it or to feel it, uh, if they go into their client and say, well, don't, don't, don't, you're being scammed, like I did to my children. I said, Hey, I'm the adult, leave me alone. So we have to train them on how to ask those leading questions, how to get, you know, some information out of them, and then say, I think maybe we ought to look into this further. And I think there's there is talk now about having to slow down the wire transactions, how to slow down, you know, Bitcoin. I've had a couple of women that have gotten involved in in Bitcoin and they're running around town going to all these little Bitcoin ATMs trying to figure out how to send $10,000. One actually got stopped by the store owner because she's so frustrated and figuring that out. He goes, Wait, I think you're getting scammed. And he explained to her why, and she stopped, but she was scared to death because sometimes the the criminals are on the phone with you, you know, walking you around town to do this kind of stuff. And that's the thing, they they scare you, they they make you think that they're going to come after you. And back in the day, back in 2012, um they were overseas, right? They were in Nigeria. They're they were they were cowards, they were not going to come get you. Over the years, though, they have moved here to the United States. They do have people here in the States, and and the folks that are getting caught are the ones that are here in the States, not the big guys across the pond. Um but when you run out of money and you're so still entrenched in that relate, in that heart relationship, then they move you to become what we call a money mule, where they're sending money to you now for you to pull it out of your bank accounts to send it back to them. Or they're having another woman or another man send you money. Uh, I had a woman that did that here in South Florida. She English is her second language. This guy said, I'm sending you money, check your bank account. It happened to be a check from a social security check from another woman in Arizona. Um, she didn't understand what it was. She was being instructed to go in and withdraw that money, turn it into Bitcoin, send it. So now she's got the bank coming after her, Social Security coming after her, the state of Florida, because she was on uh subsistence, you know, levels here. And I said, and she didn't understand why she didn't want to talk to her son, and she's gonna have a heart attack because she's so stressed out. You know, it's it's devastating. So, what we do with Scarstagan is we have uh I run a monthly support Zoom call where we just Talk about these things, and I'm kind of the motivational Monday. Like, you are going to get through this because at the beginning, you do you don't think you're ever going to get through it. You don't think you're ever going to get your money back, which you probably won't. But if you're 65, 70 years old, you're not looking to start a new job. But there are there is help out there. And that's why we need to report it because the state might have some assistance for you. Um, our young victims who are getting caught up in pig butchering, and that's the investment scams with the crypto, learning how to do crypto and then getting all your savings taken out, they're pretty angry, those millennials and younger are pretty angry victims. They do have more time to recover, but they go in it thinking, well, I've grown up on the internet, I know everything about this. And we just we we are too fast in clicking or accepting what we see. Like you and I have never met in person. I trust you that you are who I see. But with especially with AI right now, you never know who you're talking to. You never know who you're seeing and whatever. So if you don't know somebody, here's my my do not, do not send money. I mean, my kids told me that on and on and on, but I was like, I know him, I trust him, I believe him. I don't know, trust, believe anybody that I see online anymore. Uh, and and that's tough because our age group, you know, we're very trusting. We have big hearts, like your show. We serve with hearts, you know, our heart, we want to help people that have had issues, they know that they will get us and suck us in.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Suck you in. And it's scary because you just said it. I'm less trusting now. When these crimes happen, it just makes people so disengaged from other people online because they're and it's understandable. I understand why you're doing that because of what you went through. And that's, I think, is a big part of this too, is it's changing the online world, probably to the negative, and that's unfortunate.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

But we're we've talked earlier about prevention. People don't want to listen because they don't think it's gonna happen to them, yeah, and they want to know what's going on after it happens, and then it's too late. I have so many women that have come in and say, I heard your story, I wish I'd heard it before. Yeah, you know, and but the media gets a hold of this and they just want the the oh a million dollars. They want that suck moment, yeah. And I was like, that's not the point. The point is it could be a dollar, it could be a million dollars, it could be. I have a friend, she lost two and a half million. She'd retired, she was 70-something years old, had put a lot of money away, but had never gotten married. She was so excited about a relationship at that age, and then she lost it all. She can't tell her friends what happened, she can't go out for dinner with them. It has completely changed her life. And the family members, you know, it's not just you, the victim becomes your family, your community, everybody around you is a victim to this, and it's very difficult to stop. So we have to prevent it from happening in the first place.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

But and I think the other thing is the public service announcement is nine uh maybe all of them never get their money back. So when you get into it, the money's gone. Now you gotta so if that doesn't help prevent you from thinking about it, well, it's because like I don't want to lose my money, good, don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

But you're not thinking that at the time because you think that's the tough part, you've fallen in fallen in love with what you thought. But I I'll talk to people, I say, hey, would you give a million dollars to a man that you don't know that's sitting on the side of the street? No, you know, we were very reticent in giving them even a dollar sometimes, you know, because we've had advertisements down here about the homeless guys sitting on the street, they're really, you know, wealthy guys from out in the suburbs that put on their clothes and sit there during the day and then go back and get their BMWs. So when I drive down the street and I see the panhandlers, part of my brain's going, uh, that's not really a panhandler.

SPEAKER_01 25:55

I do the same thing. I'm with you. It's and media is not your best friend, so that's the other thing. But listen, everything in media and social media says both of those sides are not out. We're getting to the end here. Yes, sir. Um, so we've got this out. I want to bring you back to talk more about this, but somebody listening or has a friend or them have been scammed. How can they find you? Because they need to reach out to you.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

Well, they can reach me at the womenbehindthemsmile.com. Um, it's actually I I email and I will I will chat briefly with with victims. Uh, and I've talked to family members because this is not just single men and women. You know, I have uh husbands that have contacted me because their wives were playing words with friends online, or they were in a some sort of group chat on Facebook Messenger. And they call and they're they're just beside themselves because the wife wants to sell the house. She wants to take a mortgage out on or a second lien out on something, and uh, or she's selling all of her jewelry, and what do I do? And it's it's legally it's very difficult if you don't catch it quickly. Um, so if they have to write to me at Debbie D-E-B-B-Y at the womanbehind the smile.com. I typically answer now. If they're a victim, I will answer them immediately, but then get us get them involved with SCARS and now get them involved in the survival school uh because it's it's a very positive way to move forward and you're with other people that have been through it, yeah, which is the key. So, but romance scamsnow.com is the encyclopedia of everything you want to know or didn't want to know about relationship scams. Uh, it's an incredible website.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

Resource, beautiful, incredible resource. I'll put those in the chat. I'll get those from that chat here if you can online in the show notes so people can access it. And I like to end with this question. It's a very unique get to learn about Debbie a little deeper. So you're walking into a restaurant, you've got a table of four reserved, you're sitting at one chair, the three other chairs. Who I want you know, I want to know who you're gonna occupy them with, dead or alive, and why. But I think the most important question is what food would you order as well?

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Well, the the people I would get right at the moment are my mother and dad, who are 89 and 94, and my husband. I remarried. So it'd be the true and what would I get to eat besides peanut MMs?

SPEAKER_01 28:26

You can have as a dessert. Let's that's your dessert.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

I love peanut MMs, but CJ and I really enjoy um chicken parm.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Oh I want to be the fifth chair at that table. I love chicken parm. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

A good garlic roll.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

And audience, she just said it and I kind of she kind of was humble about it. But she's remarried, she's built her life back, she's the perfect servant's heart. I love her so much. Please take this episode as serious. All my episodes are serious, but this is a serious one where we can really help people and have that servant's heart to others. So please reach out to her, comment on the YouTube channel. If you have a comment, I'll get to her. If you can't find her, reach out to me because I want this door open and let's help as many people as you can. Be that servant. You hear something like this, get him to Debbie and her team and let's see how we can help them. Uh, don't forget my TV show together. We serve every Friday, 2 p.m. uh Pacific, 5 p.m. Eastern. And uh, you know, me and Debbie, thank you so much for watching, especially this episode. This is a serious episode, and I keep saying that, but uh uh when I first met her, I was in tears when I got off. I've never told you this because this is all this stuff can be fixed, can be stopped, can be prevented. That's probably the best word. So help us, me and Debbie, to help others do this. And we'll look for and thank you for watching and listening to this podcast. Getting emotional here. And we'll see you on the next episode of Doing Business with a Server Sorry. Thank you all for watching.